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RE: wardriving a crime in Florida?
by Welsh, Ed 12 Jul '05

12 Jul '05

A good point was previously made about intent. I don't think any of us are above knocking on a door and asking permission to use someone's WiFi for emergency connectivity needs. There is obviously more to the Florida case than we know. This guy sat outside the house long enough to have the police called on him. My concern is that these IT related cases are ruled with fault placed on the "perp" and that WiFi is becoming prevalent in enough devices that anyone can be taken in based on accessing a network. Again, intent becomes an issue, but who is the judge of that. Local cops? Network security overall has been one fantastic reactionary boondoggle and we (collective society) still do not get "it". Scratch the itch instead of taking the vaccine. It boggles the mind that M$ was not held accountable (other than market place) for the scads of hacked computers based on Windows and IE. No one really knows where the responsibility lies and so we use the same old system we always have. Witch hunts and scarlet letters. Who is to blame? Careless manufactures? Ignorant users? Weak governance? Crafty phreaks? EW <Brian JD said...> I agree with most of what you're saying here. While I certainly am not recommending that everyone go out and connect to open access points in the neighborhood, I disagree that it is illegal. It may have some personal honor issues, but I don't see it as illegal. I would however generally recommend using only those that you find that you have explicit permission for. There are known free access points, and I would generally recommend them. However, were I in desperate need of getting access, say a server crashed and I needed to do some remote tasks from 1000 miles away, and there was no readily available connection except an open wi-fi connection; I would probably use it. <somewhat political and ot> In fact were I comfortable enough where I didn't need to work. I would engage in acts of civil disobedience in regards to some of the Stalinist laws that have been passed in recent years concerning IT, were it not for the Draconian penalties they have attached to those imbicilic laws. </somewhat ot> Brian JD __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail _______________________________________________ Kclug mailing list Kclug(a)kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug The information transmitted in this e-mail is intended only for the addressee and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any interception, review, retransmission, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited by law and may subject them to criminal or civil liability. If you received this communication in error, please contact us immediately at 816.421.6611, and delete the communication from any computer or network system.

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Web Calendar update
by Chris Bier 12 Jul '05

12 Jul '05

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi All, Here is the web based calendar version of the KCLUG iCalendar, as requested. http://www.kclug.org/phpicalendar/ I'm using the phpicalendar program (http://phpicalendar.net/) to read and display the iCalendar. Chris - -- I digitally sign my emails. If you see an attachment with .asc, then that means your email client doesn't support PGP digital signatures. http://www.gnupg.org/(en)/documentation/faqs.html#q1.1 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFC1B92E5xXU3JS1mQRAoNmAJ9wzfUWpoy7tfoSYKktW3JKdic6mgCfTi/P 3Tov+M1SkWrrct1JkZ7YLsk= =1M4X -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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RE: wardriving a crime in Florida?
by Jeremy Fowler 11 Jul '05

11 Jul '05

Just wanted to put my $0.02 in... First off, this guy wasn't wardriving. Wardriving is the act of driving around and mapping out access points. Wardrivers normally don't access these networks, they just map out where they are and post them on the web. It comes from the word wardialing where computer's called huge lists of phone numbers looking for accessible computer systems and recorded those numbers. This guy wasn't wardriving, he was sitting in a parked car accessing this guy's wireless network for a long period of time - the guy kept looking out his window and saw this suspicious looking man in his car with a laptop. Now if I kept seeing a guy sitting outside my home, I would get a little pissed too. So, he did what anyone would do - call the cops. In the US, it is illegal to access ANY communication network without first getting permission. That's the law and that's exactly what he was doing. If they find spam sending software, viruses/worms/trojans, or kiddy porn on his system I think they should throw the book at him. If all he was doing was checking his email, then they can be a bit more lenient. However, if you ask me, sitting in a residential area was just asking for trouble. He should of just drove to a business district, or a coffee house, and avoid this situation all together.

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wardriving a crime in Florida?
by Jack 09 Jul '05

09 Jul '05

Well this is a bit disturbing. These Florida folks just don't seem to get it. http://www.sptimes.com/2005/07/04/State/Wi_Fi_cloaks_a_new_br.shtml Now it seems to me that this guy who was wardriving, might have been up to no good, but it would seem to me that he might have a good defense against this "alleged crime". The owner saw him several times and didn't tell him to leave. The owner knew that his wi-fi was open. The owner knew how to lock down his wi-fi and didn't. Now it seems to me that just like it's not a crime to trespass (like wlaking across someone's yard), if there are no signs to the contrary, that the owner by his lack of action to secure his network gave implicit permission for use. Of course, IANAL, so I'll be trying to watch this case to see what happens. I think it's more than due time to consider writting some legislation to protect innocent wardrivers. Case in point, back in May, while visisting my mother at the hospital, my brothers and I did some wardriving so we could keep up with our email and work activities. The hospital's wifi wasn't due to be up and accessible for another month, so we found some access points locally and connected at the picnic area on the grounds of the hospital. We could see and connect to the hospital's wi-fi but it wasn't yet configured completely so no 'net access. There were acouple of other access points, that were open and running under the default configuration. We suspect they were: one of the offices in the adjacent doctors' building and a private cable/dsl connection in the neighborhood. Any discussion? Brian J.D. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

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RE: wardriving a crime in Florida?
by Welsh, Ed 08 Jul '05

08 Jul '05

IMHO, a network left unprotected forfeits prosecution of simple use. I have four WiFi networks available in my home. These networks are broadcast by various neighbors and depending on which part of my house you are in will determine which network you access. Since these networks are open, my system will autoconnect and get an ip on the strongest one. Simply getting a DHCP address means that the network has been accessed. Setting a precedent that would make this illegal would mean slapping a felony on everyone with a modern WiFi capable computer that stands in range of an open network. Now if proof can be made that a system has been harmed or improperly accessed, then all rules apply. Just browsing the internet is not harmful. Installing a virus on a PC accessible via local WiFi is harmful and should be prosecuted. Even some mobile phones are WiFi capable. Just going for a walk in my neighborhood with one of these would put you within the realm of felony prosecution. Everytime a network is available the phone would pickup a Yahoo! or MSN messenger friend list. Hopefully the judge has some sense. EW -----Original Message----- From: John Townsend [mailto:tragicallykarmic@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 11:05 AM To: kclug(a)kclug.org Subject: Re: wardriving a crime in Florida? This is where I think the whole thing gets a little bit tricky, the articles I read seemed set up to try and start a panic among less technical people. I wouldn't be surprised if we see people who go wardriving without acessing the networks getting arrested soon. It will be interesting to see what the charge will be. I believe the guy in Florida was charged with network intrusion. I think it will all come down to whether or not his lawyer can convince the judge that accessing a network that has been intentionally left open is not "intruding". If this is the case it will probably lead to a legal precedent and a lot of confusion. I mean you have open networks that have been left open, open networks where the owner doesn't know how to close it, closed networks that have been cracked, closed networks that have been cracked by somebody else and look open. Plus the issues of usage and intent. Should get interesting. --- Matthew Copple <mcopple(a)gmail.com> wrote: > It is widely accepted that breaking into someone's computer and using > it without their consent is a crime, or at the very least, a Bad Thing > To Do -- even if the user invites a takeover attempt by failing to > secure his system. Walking into someone's house without her permission > is also a crime, even if the owner leaves the door and windows wide > open. Hopping into an unlocked car and taking it for a drive (even if > you return it) is still theft. > > How would jumping on someone's wi-fi connection be any different? > > Matt > > _______________________________________________ Kclug mailing list Kclug(a)kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug The information transmitted in this e-mail is intended only for the addressee and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any interception, review, retransmission, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited by law and may subject them to criminal or civil liability. If you received this communication in error, please contact us immediately at 816.421.6611, and delete the communication from any computer or network system.

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Re: Debian With Raid
by rcedelman＠comcast.net 08 Jul '05

08 Jul '05

I'll agree with Jason about using an LSI Logic board over a 3ware. However, I've got to disagree about the SATA drives. SATA is nice from a price/capacity standpoint, but they're still horribly unreliable. IMO, spend the extra money on a SCSI card and some nice SCSI drives.. 15k RPM 174GB drives are great. MUCH more reliable than SATA. You'll be happy you spent the extra money down the road. FWIW, we have a HP MSA1500 SAN here at work, with 2 MSA 20s, fully populated. That's 24 250GB SATA drives. We just had yet another drive fail. Second one in 2 months, and the third or fourth since we bought the SAN. Performance isn't all that great, we wish we would have spent the extra money on the MSA 30s, which are SCSI enclosures. Rich > _______________________________________________ > Kclug mailing list > Kclug(a)kclug.org > http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug

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Debian With Raid
by Thom Morrow 07 Jul '05

07 Jul '05

I am looking for a file server solution for my work. I am planning on running Debian/Samba with a hardware raid (mirrored). I have looked around for a Raid Controller and from what I can tell 3ware makes the most compatible. Do you all happen to know if my research is correct? If not could you suggest a better solution? Thanks Thom No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.10/43 - Release Date: 7/6/2005

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Linux, Zaurus, cheap wireless internet
by Jared 07 Jul '05

07 Jul '05

So I have this idea that you could take a Zaurus-like box stripped down to bare minimum and have it dedicated to running a single application, Mozilla. Plug in a wireless card, and make enough of them to sell for about $100 or $200, cheap enough for poor people to afford. Then put up a few hotspots, charge $10 a month for unlimited download to these devices, and make a living thereby. Or convince a city council to do so. It's just an idea, and I'm already making a living, so it's all speculative, but here's my question: Being that the Zaurus still sells for just under $1000, how could this happen: a. Acquire a boatload of used Zauruses from Ebay b. Make a contract with China for Zaurus-lite thingys c. Some other form of hardware device I don't know about which already exists, and which costs less. d. Angel investors, inspired by the noble cause of closing the digital divide. Any suggestions? -Jared

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Re: KCLUG iCal/vCal/iCalendar/vCalendar
by Chris Bier 06 Jul '05

06 Jul '05

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Jim Herrmann wrote: > The after meeting meetings would be good. Done. - -- I digitally sign my emails. If you see an attachment with .asc, then that means your email client doesn't support PGP digital signatures. http://www.gnupg.org/(en)/documentation/faqs.html#q1.1 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFCzAFiE5xXU3JS1mQRAveUAKCSuIrHf43BYmidLJNI36jedl/75ACbBClR yZe5mptC0NymEeMwFlWFwRY= =A8dP -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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RE: KCLUG iCal/vCal/iCalendar/vCalendar
by Kelsay, Brian - Kansas City, MO 06 Jul '05

06 Jul '05

I spoke too soon. I checked the wikipedia link and see that I need Sunbird. That ought to be easy. Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem. ---Occam -----Original Message----- From: Kelsay, Brian - Kansas City, MO What do you use to open these. I'm on a Windoers XP box at work. Firefox seems unable to open them. Outlook has no clue. What next? Open Office? -----Original Message----- From: Chris Bier I've added an iCal/vCal/iCalendar/vCalendar[1] to the KCLUG website. http://www.kclug.org/KCLUG.ics Let us know if we need to add anything else to it. Chris [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICalendar - --

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